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How large is a black whole ?
Author: Chris Della Fave (---.elon.edu)
Date: 02-06-02 15:41
How large is a black whole?
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Re: How large is a black whole ?
Author: Katie Rosenthal (---.elon.edu)
Date: 02-07-02 10:48
A black hole is only a few to a few tens of kilometers in size.
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Re: How large is a black whole ?
Author: david (---.alltel.net)
Date: 03-26-02 10:13
i was under the impression that black holes came in many various sizes. for example, the new particle accelerator, to be tested in july, methinks, will collide two subatomic particles together and, quite possibly, create a tiny black hole. however, black holes evaporate under normal circumstances. this black hole will be so small that it wont effect anything, really. by the by, the particle accelerator is to observe the way the universe was at about 10^-34 seconds after the "big bang."
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Re: How large is a black whole ?
Author: Chattan (---.turboline.skynet.be)
Date: 06-21-02 17:49
Our Solar System was created by a black-hole the Sun being the "remnant" fission-fusion core. The big-bang was an ... implosion ... caused by a discharge of energy between a positive and a negative point in the eternal infinity of the "waters" of the Nooun (alternatively Nun, Noun or Noon, and pronounced as noon, from Egyptian Coptic.)
From Genesis Chapter One, changing the word "waters" into energy gives you a clue???
And God divided the "waters" into solid energy and non-solid energy.
And yet every day ... YOU ... walk on ... energy. Don't you? ;- )
The outer limits of gravitational attraction of the formative black-hole is defined by the "shell" of the fixed constellations, of which Orion is but one and which is also reproduced, in mirror image, by the Pyramids at Giza.
All you hav to do now is to solve the "mystery" of the Sphinx, found at the same place.
A simple "coincidence".
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Re: How large is a black whole ?
Author: Vegeta (130.86.24.---)
Date: 08-08-02 23:37
how would you measure a blacke hole? it's a heavy star (as einstein put it in General Relativity) and it's invisible to OUR eyes because it doesn't emit any light but magnetic or radioactive waves or something.
-vegeta
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Re: How large is a black whole ?
Author: Alfonso Espada (---.proxy.aol.com)
Date: 08-16-02 22:24
There is no standard size for a black hole.
It all depends on how massive the star was when it began to collapse. Some are so massive that they collapse into what is called a singularity in which space-time is infinitely curved.
Black holes can be detected by how matter reacts as it spirals into it. It gives off X-rays!
Anything falling past the event horizon where gravity is irresistible remains forever beyond our observation and beyond our ability to conjecture about since all the laws of physics no longer need apply. Some speculate that matter emerges via what they call a white hole at some other far-flung location in our universe. Or that a wormhole or shortcut to other locations is created. But this is all mere conjecture--nothing more.
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about this big ----------> .
Author: Sentinel (---.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)
Date: 08-22-02 19:14
Exactly. For now we'll assume only stars with no spin.
For a star roughly 3 times the size of our own or smaller, the black hole will be anywhere from a few kilometres in size to the size of a point. The part of the black hole which is not visible(the event horizon will be much bigger) It doesn't represent the actual size of the black hole, only it's mass.
For stars bigger than 3 time the size of our sun, they will begin to collapse. But they will always continue to collapse. The force of gravity created by it's own weight will prevail over any resistive force or pressure. This type of blackhole will shrink to something smaller than the planck length(smaller than any particle known).
Then there's a special case. If the star is spinning, it will spin faster as the star's radius diminishes. As it gets smaller and smaller, it will spin faster and faster, possibly creating a black "ring", or black "donut". These types of black holes can radiate massives amounts of radiation and even permit someone to pass through the center unharmed(assuming the ring is big enough and your ship is SOLID).
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Chris - these two summed it up beautifully!
Author: Caspar Marley (---.gate5.yokota.attmil.ne.jp)
Date: 08-24-02 00:08
<P>The former post was removed as it was off topic. We will be migrating to registration-only forums at <a href=http://jollyrogerwest.com>jollyrogerwest.com Great Books forums</a> and <a href=http://booksliterature.com>booksliterature.com Great Books forums</a>. These are Great Books sites, and we prefer posts such as:<P> <pre>
LXXIV
But be contented: when that fell arrest
Without all bail shall carry me away,
My life hath in this line some interest,
Which for memorial still with thee shall stay.
When thou reviewest this, thou dost review
The very part was consecrate to thee:
The earth can have but earth, which is his due;
My spirit is thine, the better part of me:
So then thou hast but lost the dregs of life,
The prey of worms, my body being dead;
The coward conquest of a wretch's knife,
Too base of thee to be remembered,.
The worth of that is that which it contains,
And that is this, and this with thee remains.
--William Shakespeare</pre>
Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind.
--Albert EinsteinAt twenty you have many desires which hide the truth, but beyond forty there are only real and fragile truths -your
abilities and your failings.
T. S. Eliot<pre>
VI
Then let not winter's ragged hand deface,
In thee thy summer, ere thou be distill'd:
Make sweet some vial; treasure thou some place
With beauty's treasure ere it be self-kill'd.
That use is not forbidden usury,
Which happies those that pay the willing loan;
That's for thy self to breed another thee,
Or ten times happier, be it ten for one;
Ten times thy self were happier than thou art,
If ten of thine ten times refigur'd thee:
Then what could death do if thou shouldst depart,
Leaving thee living in posterity?
Be not self-will'd, for thou art much too fair
To be death's conquest and make worms thine heir.
--William Shakespeare</pre>
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Re: Come on Caspar
Author: Chattan (---.74-200-80.adsl.skynet.be)
Date: 09-07-02 12:23
<P>The former post was off topic and was thus removed as it was a violation of our
Great Books & Classics spirit. These forums are being phased out & replaced. Join us at our new
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<a href==http://jollyrogerwest.com>jollyrogerwest.com Great Books forums</a>,
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and <a href=http://booksliterature.com>booksliterature.com Great Books forums</a>.
Please respect that these are Great Books sites. We prefer discussions along the following
lines:<P> The hardest thing in the world to understand is the income tax. --Albert
EinsteinScience is a wonderful thing if one does not have to earn one\'s living at
it. --Albert Einstein<P><pre>
LV
Not marble, nor the gilded monuments
Of princes, shall outlive this powerful rhyme;
But you shall shine more bright in these contents
Than unswept stone, besmear\'d with sluttish time.
When wasteful war shall statues overturn,
And broils root out the work of masonry,
Nor Mars his sword, nor war\'s quick fire shall burn
The living record of your memory.
\'Gainst death, and all-oblivious enmity
Shall you pace forth; your praise shall still find room
Even in the eyes of all posterity
That wear this world out to the ending doom.
So, till the judgment that yourself arise,
You live in this, and dwell in lovers\' eyes.
--William Shakespeare</pre>
<P><P>Beauty is truth, truth is beauty, -that is all
Ye know on earth, and all ye need to know.
John Keats, Ode on a Grecian Urn, 1819<P>
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BHs, tori, Orion, and MIT.
Author: Caspar Marley (---.gate0.yokota.attmil.ne.jp)
Date: 09-07-02 21:37
<P>The former post was off topic and was thus removed as it was a violation of our
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Please respect that these are Great Books sites. We prefer discussions along the following
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W. H. Auden<P>A false enchantment can all too easily last a lifetime.
W. H. Auden<P><P>
It\'s difficult to believe that people are still starving in this country
because food isn\'t available.
Ronald Reagan
<P>
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Re: Contradiction.
Author: Chattan (---.80-136-217.adsl.skynet.be)
Date: 09-13-02 11:15
From your posting.
"Black holes do not a star make; quite the contrary, in that a star may result (if massive enough) in a BH, not the other way around."
A star ... may ... result !!! You don't mean a Sun "star" do you. So you agree with me after all, or maybe you just like to contradict yourself .......
Ha ha ha ;- )
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Our sun IS a star
Author: Caspar Marley (---.gate2.yokota.attmil.ne.jp)
Date: 09-13-02 11:57
Read it again:
"Black holes do not a star make; quite the contrary, in that a star may result (if massive enough) in a BH, not the other way around."
As you quoted: "A star ... may ... result !!!" I say "...may..." because of the fact that a star less than ~3 sols will not end up as a BH unless it is subjected to unnatural forces, i.e.: arbitrarily advanced technology _might_ allow soneone to force it to happen, but it won't happen on its own.
A star of ~3-20 sols could end as a BH, but could also blow itself to bits trying.
A star >~20 sols is almost certain to end as a BH; their is only an infinitesimal chance of it doing anything else.
Our sun, "Sol", _IS_ a star -- what the H*ll else do you think it is? For that matter, what do you think stars _are_?!?
I neither agree with you, nor contradict myself.
.
Please answer the two questions above, to wit:
a) What do you think our sun is, if not a star?
b) What do you think stars are, precisely?
The answer is 42. ;-)
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Measuring a black hole
Author: Sentinel (24.156.105.---)
Date: 09-15-02 14:17
Can you measure the size of a hole?
Yes. Even though a hole does not exist, you can measure it. It has no physical substance yet you can give it scalar values to describe it.
Well, why can't we measure a BH? The truth is, we can. We measure it like it was a hole. Everything we can't see belongs to the black hole.
If you look at a point in space and see a heavy collection of stars with a pure black hole in the center, you can be pretty sure it's a BH. The size of the circle you cannot see is called the event horizon, or also Schwartzchild radius. This radius is determined by the mass of the BH. Whether the BH matter clump has measurable dimensions(singularity or not), we can measure it's mass. That is it, other than the mass and schwartzchild radius, we can't get much info from a black hole. Essentially, all relevant information regarding state is lost within a BH.
BTW, BH's can theoretically only emit one type of substance. Half of a particle anti-particle pair. One of the two zooms off into free-space while the other gets sucked in as a result of the difference in velocities for the pair. Any kind of x-ray or light emissions do not come from the BH itself. Rather, these radiations are a manifestation of the increased energy acquired by an object being sucked into a BH. As matter falls in, it emits x-rays and so forth before it has passed the event horizon.
Also, if a BH is secluded from any matter, it will shrink in time. That is to say, a BH has a temperature and does emit particles and anti-particles. Although, for any BH formed by the collapse of a massive star will not evaporate in the visible lifetime of the universe. The smaller the BH, the hotter it is and the more it radiates. A BH about to release the last of it's matter will probably be easily visible as an intense flash of light and radiation.
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Re: Sun
Author: Chattan (---.80-136-217.adsl.skynet.be)
Date: 09-27-02 16:44
Our Sun is a Sun as it is too small to be truly called a star. In terms of Sols maybe you are referring to luminosity. Even though the Sun IS referred to as a G2 "star" stars are defined as being gaseous whereas the Sun is liquid .............
The core of the planet Earth is liquid too.
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Re:
Author: Caspar Marley (---.gate3.yokota.attmil.ne.jp)
Date: 09-30-02 03:06
"Our Sun is a Sun as it is too small to be truly called a star."
You're wrong as usual. Look it up.
.
"In terms of Sols maybe you are referring to luminosity."
No, I'm not. A Sol can mean 1 solar mass. Look it up.
.
"Even though the Sun IS referred to as a G2 "star" stars are defined as being gaseous whereas the Sun is liquid ............."
No, it's not. Wrong again. The sun is a fluid body, but both gasses and liquids are fluid... so are plasmas, incidentally; you know: "plasma" as in "star" or "sun"? A highly ionized material?
.
"The core of the planet Earth is liquid too."
That's terrific: you know about your own planet. It's not related, though, now is it?
Didn't think so.
.
The answer is 42. ;-)
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Re: Creation.
Author: Chattan (---.174-136-217.adsl.skynet.be)
Date: 10-06-02 14:22
Hello Alain,
YOU said it yourself, ENERGY cannot be Created ... nor ... destroyed ....... now see this in its Biblical context otherwise you will miss the entire point of what I am saying.
Before Creation there is (not was) an eternal (indestructible) sea of energy which is infinite in extent.
From this sea of energy Creation was made. As Creation fizzles out it all returns to this same sea of indestructible energy.
As far as I am aware ... EVERYONE ... has always known this to be true.
This Infinite and Eternal Sea of basic Energy of The Nun has always existed ... BECAUSE ... it is Eternal and cannot be destroyed.
It is in this Sea of Energy of The "Nun" that Creation took place.
In the books which I have read on Egyptology this is referred to as the Noun (Sounds like noon.) (Occasionally Nooun.) because these books were in French and were all that I could get.
So before Creation there is a Sea of Energy at zero entropy (maximum entropy, minimum potential.)
GOD Created the potential and as all of that potential is used up it returns to zero entropy.
Which is why I say that (potential) energy ... falls ... to zero entropy, which is then a minimum potential.
Maximum entropy = 0 = minimum potential.
Iain.
Nothing can get hotter by itself. It ... does ... require there to be an ... additional ... Force.
May The Force be with you. May God be with you.
This is saying the same thing.
Try reading Genesis Chapter One.
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Re: How large is a black whole ?
Author: Steve Heidenreich (---.proxy.aol.com)
Date: 11-22-02 02:08
it seems to me that asking how to measure a black hole is not the question to ask. a black hole, by its very nature is outside of our experience. the only part of a black hole that we can have any experience with is the event horizon. for all practical purposes, anything inside of that is forever lost from our universe.
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Re:
Author: Ray Whitbread (142.46.196.---)
Date: 04-15-03 12:50
But hawking already showed that that is NOT true radiation does leak out even from the surface. Even so I do not believe in singularities -- they are just Maths consequences and almost always signify a lack of understanding.
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Re: Creation.
Author: alyzerine (---.supermusca.bigsky.net)
Date: 07-02-03 19:14
dung begat dingbats
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Re: cyclic creation
Author: Baldev Singh Rana (---.ains.net.au)
Date: 08-23-03 00:43
Hi,
I think there cannot be all energy or all mass in the universe. Although sum of mass and energy is constant (as universe is a closed body) but universe maintains its dynamic behaviour by constantly changing mass and energy into each other.
So there cannot be a sea of energy at big bang but in fact energy should be locked inside the mass just as molten iron present inside the core of Earth. As the huge ball of mass continued to fall towards the core due to intense gravity, the pressure inside built up, which at last caused the big bang. So the main players in creativity are combination of mass and energy. I think creation should have life cycle like water cycle on earth, one type of arrangement of mass and energy become cause for another arrangement and the cycle continues infinitely.
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Re: Creation.
Author: Garonius maximus (---.proxy.aol.com)
Date: 12-10-04 08:34
God doesn't exist how many times do I have to say it, we created god in our image to explain to us why we fear death?
I now understand why you are so self righteous, ah zealotry, a wonderfully ignorant way to approach science, religion belongs with philosophy, therefore any argument which starts with the word god by definition is sophistry...
Get out of that one Rommel!
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Re:
Author: Garonius maximus (---.proxy.aol.com)
Date: 12-11-04 06:27
Do you ever get the feeling he's playing Devil's advocate?
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Re: Creation.
Author: Virtual Maria (---.proxy.aol.com)
Date: 12-16-04 02:59
Garonius, you are talking about God you think, but the term you are talking about is not really God - only your misinterpretation about God. The God you are talking about really does not exist, you are most correct in this. But REAL GOD is something other than what you are describing, and That Exists, because REAL GOD has to do with Existence Itself. Existence exists, i think you might agree with this - unless you are drinking at the moment because of your SAD, in which case let's talk when you're sober, i find discussing anything of consequence with intoxicated minds to be a waste of my time, no offense. I assume there are times intoxication is helpful, but to discuss serious subjects, it is deleterious.
For your sake, i hope that REAL GOD does not get insulted or miffed at your vehement anti-God proclamations and feelings. But i think that for those who are unsure about the existence of God, your words may serve to mislead them, and that would be a shame, at the very least...
i have written at length to your other posts about the topic of God, in short, that it is not that God does not exist, but that we must understand what is meant by the term God, because God most suredly exists - Existence Itself is what is referred to God in all the religions of the world in a variety of ways - so, Existence Itself Exists. Old men with long white beards up in the clouds calling themselves God may not exist, but to proclaim "God does not exist!" is not the case. This only means, one has not yet found the right information about That which is Real God.
Truth is Beauty
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Re:
Author: Garonius maximus (---.nhs.uk)
Date: 12-16-04 10:39
<P>This post was removed because it was off topic. Soon we will be migrating to
registration-only forums at <a
href=http://jollyrogerwest.com>jollyrogerwest.com Great Books forums</a>,
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No mother would ever willingly sacrifice her sons for territorial gain,
for economic advantage, for ideology.
Ronald Reagan
Truth is beautiful, without doubt; but so are lies. --R. W. EmersonLove: St. Augustine Quotes
He who is filled with love is filled with God himself.<pre>
VII
Lo! in the orient when the gracious light
Lifts up his burning head, each under eye
Doth homage to his new-appearing sight,
Serving with looks his sacred majesty;
And having climb'd the steep-up heavenly hill,
Resembling strong youth in his middle age,
Yet mortal looks adore his beauty still,
Attending on his golden pilgrimage:
But when from highmost pitch, with weary car,
Like feeble age, he reeleth from the day,
The eyes, 'fore duteous, now converted are
From his low tract, and look another way:
So thou, thyself outgoing in thy noon:
Unlook'd, on diest unless thou get a son.
--William Shakespeare</pre>
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Re: Creation.
Author: William Penrod (---.try.wideopenwest.com)
Date: 12-19-04 15:35
do you not find it deleterious to apply human emotionalities such as becoming miffed or insulted to your conception of "Real God?" you seem very informed and detailed in your conception of what God is, and if this is the case, that you have come to know what God is through the world's religions, then you should also have percieved that God is beyond emotions and judgements, unless you cling to the scare-tactics of less than enlightened humans, avatars of God or not, who paint God as a wrathful, jealous, vengeful "humanlike" figure sitting up in the clouds. even if things like "the laws of karma" and whatnot were "created" by God, this in no way makes him subject to becoming offended by his children's statements, ignorance, or lack of understanding about his Nature. please respond and give me your input.
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Re: Creation.
Author: Garonius maximus (---.proxy.aol.com)
Date: 12-19-04 17:48
I could say the same about yoi\u ,just voicing ideas being agnostic I have a rare cahnce to stay on the fence, I think you may be worng but I know not, thus I question, isn't that what philosophy and science is all about, thanks for listening.
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Re: Creation.
Author: Garonius maximus (---.proxy.aol.com)
Date: 12-19-04 19:36
This is precisely my point, no matter which side of the fence you chose to stand you come off looking the same, God is beyond emotional states, go is just us, and we are gods; arguuing about it is just, pausing to take breath, think not of what god is but what you think he is, are you right or wrong? It matters not, but whatever side of that quantum fence you stand, you look like a fool, QM in a nutshell.
Try to have some sort of objectivty in your thinking, try to question all, blind faith is fine, but dont try and justify your thoughts with it; god is more than just, where is beyond: your talking off the top of your head, blindly following with no real answer, talking about God is like looking for a light switch, when there is no light switch, and you know not what it is, and have never percieved 'it': a dark room with no light in a universe where light does not exist; running round in circles on a hamster wheel of your own chosing, blindly following a cause that doesn't exist; using sophistry to explain the 'real' and ignorance to question science, like QM and string theory; a pawn of deciet: there are none so blind as those who will not see:-
you cannot discuss God within any rhyme or reason, so you chose sophistry as cloak of season,
ignorance as a staff to bear your uneven weight, to struggle their?
Reason, doth find foe with logic, to doubt the truth, to lie with honesty, to honour the lies, to blind thyself:
none but men/women could hide inside a fickle shell, life is fleeting death certain, then hence draw aside lifes vague curtain?
poem by me just then off the top of my head......
Do you see? Or art though still blind?
Reply in honesty without obfuscation and ignorance, or reply not at all?
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Re: Creation.
Author: William Penrod (---.madsnh01.mi.comcast.net)
Date: 12-21-04 12:31
=) please note that the post i sent was aimed at the remarks of Virtual Mary, who stated at some point to you, "i hope God was not miffed or insulted by what you were saying about him..." i understand that speaking about the Nature of God is an area anyone can attack because there isn't much one can point at and say, "here is the logical proof that backs my statements up." But apparently Virtual Mary has left agnosticism behind, and voices many many opinions about the true Nature of God, which is fine by me. i simply wanted to get clarification from her as to whether she has come to the conclusion that God gets insulted by ignorance or "blasphemy" if there is such a thing, and then exacts revenge on his children. i simply believe that is illogical. i was not attempting to attack you or your views of God, which by your own admission changes with the seasons, something that is also fine by me. my own view is that God does exist, which i came to after many years of agnosticism. i just don't see him as a vengeful entity or force or consciousness, which could be wrong as well. if i sounded like i was trying to push belief down you or Mary's throat, i apologize. believe whatever it is you wish.
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Re: Creation.
Author: Garonius maximus (---.proxy.aol.com)
Date: 12-21-04 19:27
Sorry, just assumed you were, me I'm agnostic because I cannot accept blid fait without logic, after all that's what causes many of the world's ills. Being faitfull is fine being an atheist is fine, its just a different side of the same emotional coin, no one can discuss god on an objective level its subjective, but it is nice to hear the replies, without discussion we become but fools in a dark room surely, that's why I porbe I love to gain new knowledge, devils advocate aside, it's the reason we're here to reason, otherwise what raison d'etre?
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Re: Creation.
Author: Garonius maximus (---.proxy.aol.com)
Date: 12-22-04 16:19
yeah I know but theres a certain intolerance to ideas we dont agree with, just being argumentative, sorry. Anyway sent you an email. The long hard road is over it's all uphill from here!
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Re: How large is a black whole ?
Author: dont worry (163.150.228.---)
Date: 01-11-05 15:18
Have you ever tried measuring the diameter of your @!#$.
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